This topic contains 24 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  Lennart82 5 years, 8 months ago.

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  • #15633
     Lennart82 
    Participant

    Like the topic says…. I’m a little bit pissed…

    Remember that rose I did on the foot?
    http://i41.tinypic.com/2ypc23a.jpg

    And remember, when I told you guys, I wanted to do sooo much more, but she couldnt take it any more, and I had to finish it roughly in the same palete.

    Well now she just contacted me, and told me it needed more colour, she was an unhappy client… And she wanted me to fix it…. Free….
    Not only am I charging minimum cash for a tattoo. Even telling people I am still in the mix of practising, thats why they get it to this low price.
    But in my price, I even have a free “come back, and get touch up” within 6 months. I am getting really annoyed with people like this. I consider myself a nice guy, calm and mellow. But people like this… Makes my piss boil….

    Now, I have done a roughly calculation, Denmark contra America. Things are cheaper there, and thats in my calculation as well. I charge 300 dkr pr started hour, that equals 54.457$. But once I have taken all things in, comparing things bought in the us, and in dk. When the taxes, tolls and so on are taken roughly out. My hourly fee, (if I were in the USA) would be around 15-20 $

    Now…. These people… Hackling on the price… Wanting it cheaper. Wanting a discount. Want, want, want… They even expect a photorealistic Nikko Hurtado tattoo, once I am finished.
    I swear by all the Nordic Gods… The next person who hakles me, is kicked out. And the next one that expects superior 50 years tattoo skills/experience, for the price of 15 bucks an hour…….. I…. I…. I…. dont know, what I will do..

    IF I could produce Nikko Hurtado level tattoos… I would charge 550$ pr started hour (in Denmark ofcourse)

    Sorry about that, this is for rants and raves remember :P

  • #26050
     Infamous 
    Participant

    Maybe you should just tell her that you don’t guarantee foot tattoos, thats what I do. That and hand tattoos, I’m not going to guarantee those because I guarantee I’ll have to pump more ink in there later anyways.

    So, hand and foot tattoos do not equal free touch-ups. But practically everything else does.

  • #26051
     Ramenuzumaki 
    Participant

    i do free touch ups but i hve very strict rules
    as far as bugger clients man one client wont ruin your business
    just be calm and respectful and tell them you dont like what they’re doing, or how they are acting. explain to them your policies on touch ups, and explain that you cant give them a deal as you are already undercutting the market. i get that a lot. i charge 40CAD/hr, and people ask me for deals. well im giving you a deal already so shut it

  • #26052
     Infamous 
    Participant

    That and you could always just tell her you can get to it but it will be a few months because you are otherwise booked

  • #26053
     einvalentine 
    Participant

    I don’t blame you Len. I usually tell people to avoid foot tattoos, as well as hands. They don’t last. But when they insist, I make it well known that not only is it going to fade quickly, it’s also going to hurt like a bitch… thus, typically requiring more than one sitting. At least that way I can play the “I told you so” card if they start whining about fixing it. I also make it absolutely clear that I am no “professional”, and obviously do not charge in such a way. So, as the “professionals” usually say… they get what they pay for.

  • #26054
     Lennart82 
    Participant

    Yeah, maybe I should set some ground rules for foot tattoos. Hand tattoos are easy, since thats the only illigal thing in my country when tattooing some one.

  • #26055
     BeginnersLuck 
    Member

    In my experience people who pay the least are the most difficult, also the most demanding.

  • #26056
     robroy289 
    Participant

    You need to set some guidelines before each tattoo.. Come up with your own consent.

  • #26057
     Lennart82 
    Participant

    Yeah I know. I have been way too soft on everything out there, regarding my stuff. From my portraits to my tattoos.

    But I can feel, I’m getting ready baked, and start to realise that I have been way too soft on people. Too nice.

    Perhaps it was my little romantic dream on art, that every body should be able to buy/get something done. But not anymore, I just, the 22 of December finished my last portrait drawing. And the nerve the person had… Saying things like; Too expensive, I didnt deliver early enough.
    That guy took the cake…. He actually opend my eyes on things.
    I spend roughly 11 hours on that family portrait of 5 people… 11 hours… To a price at about 100$
    And this one, wasent the first who complained about the price. I even, in the past, gave a discount…….. Too soft.. I know.
    Now I have to wake up.

    Worst part is, that I’m not being taken serious as an portrait artist or tattooer, based only on my prices. I charged around 50$ for a normal portrait. The same goes pr hour in tattoos. 50$…
    But people dont take me serious. They think I’m a joke, under charging.
    I have seen a tattooer charge 150$ pr hour, with skills that are questionable. But they are respected, based on their price. Its like they have a wrong mind set on things. “If its expensive, then its worth it!”
    The same goes with portraits. My boss at my job, just got a painting done.(Now its two different mediums, paint and charcoal, I know) But this portrait, I could have done with my charcoals. The painting was done on an A1 piece. I could have done it on an A2. My price = 170$. You know what the company paid for the boss painting? Just around 18.000$
    And this kind of pissed me of, since I paid for this over my OWN salery. Heck I could have done it for 300$, but if it would give me more credibilty, then hell, I would gladly charge 9.000$ :P

    Dont know whats wrong with people really. I just want every body to be able to get this. But nooooo they want to pay more, so only crazy people would buy it….

    (Sorry guys, but its my rant topic :P)

  • #26058
     Infamous 
    Participant

    I’ve seen your work Lenn, you can charge as much as you want lol

  • #26059
     Lennart82 
    Participant

    Hahahaha, well I have a plan. Coming the next year, I will charge a bit more on my tattoos. And a hell of alot more on my portrait drawings. :P

  • #26060
     Vory 
    Member

    It seems like being frustrated with clients is all part of the industry.

    It’s awesome you guys have a little place to vent to each other.
    Don’t trip Lenn, people do not understand what it’s like. Art, let alone tattooing, is some seriously complicated stuff. Some will be open to hear and others really, really won’t. Don’t let them get you down bro.

  • #26061
     Lennart82 
    Participant

    Agreed Vory. People talk it as if theres nothing to it.

    And yes a place to rant out loud, with people who actually know the feeling is a lot better. I tried ranting it out with my girlfriend, but she didnt get it. Well shes a nurse, so, I guess I cant blame her ;) But still she is supporting, but a guy needs equal minded people.
    I would not know how on earth I could have come this far without you guys ;)

  • #26062
     Lennart82 
    Participant

    More ranting and raving….

    Hey I’m getting good at this. ;)

    No but seriously, I am pissed, or dissapointed actually. So much that it ruined my sleep last night. Got about 3 hours of sleep.

    I have two ongoing projects on my brother, a skull and bird on his back (which needs more darkness) and a coverup on his forearm, (which I’m almost done with)

    Just yesterday, I checked out my facebook page, just like everyday. And there I saw a new picture my brother uploaded. The picture showed his new tattoo. Which I knew nothing of. If this just was it, well fine. BUT it wasent… The one who tattooed him, are the same ones that are going around smacktalking me.
    Now I’m a bit torn. I still have two projects on him but just feeling sp pissed along with a ton of dissapointment. Whats your take on this?
    (I know its a free world, but still…. Makes me a bit sad)

  • #26063
     Vory 
    Member

    Hey Lenn,

    Just to make sure I got this;
    Basically your bro is getting tattooed by guys who are starting shit with you.
    Hopefully he’s not letting them touch your work….if so that’s another matter entirely.

    I’d say you need to establish whether or not your bro knows what’s going on. You’d be surprised how badly things can be miscommunicated these days. Little shit blows up into big shit, especially with tattooing and $$$ involved.

    Best bet is to keep your cool with him. He is free to get tattooed by whatever dickhead he wants as long as they don’t touch your work, it’s not really disrespect.

  • #26064
     Infamous 
    Participant

    I’d be pretty ticked if one of my siblings went to someone who is talking crap about me as well.

    Is it possible that he didn’t know these guys were dissing you though? Just to reiterate what Vory said.

    On the other hand, I wouldn’t be to upset if a sibling went to another artist. I’d understand that the other artist is probably (most likely) more skilled than I am, and/or very good at what they wanted to get done. Now if I looked at that tattoo they got and thought I could have done this just as good, and it would’ve been free from me it would definitely bother me!

    That used to happen when I was doing photography (which I still do, but not nearly as often) my sister did a couple of sessions with one of her friends and it just made me crazy! And yes, I was and still am so much better at photography then her friend was.. I just had to remember that her friend was trying to get started as a photographer just like I was and she was giving her free photography as well.. But it was still hard to swallow.

  • #26065
     Ramenuzumaki 
    Participant

    It was script, and yes he knew since day one.

  • #26066
     ewok_poacher 
    Member

    I touch any tattoo I do FOR FREE, FOREVER, FOR ANY REASON. I saw your rose tattoo, if she paid for the whole tattoo then finish it. If she paid for the time she sat in the chair then charge her to finish it. When its done, touch it up if it needs it. Don’t do hands because your not good enough yet, I would also add necks and forearms to that don’t do list (if you do you will regret it in a few years , I promise).

  • #26067
     Lennart82 
    Participant

    I know were your getting at guys, and to somepoint I would just have left it were it was.
    if it wasent for my brother though, he was the one who first made me aware of the bad talking. And those occasions, he was the first to back talk them. Saying stuff like; he would never let her touch him with a poker. Thats what makes me a bit sad, I know its a free world and stuff. And maybe I should just leave it as it is.
    He got his last name tattooed on his forearm, and its crisp and nice looking. But it hasent healed yet, so im waiting to see the end result.
    I have looked into her things, even though she has a closed group on facebook. She uses metal grips but dosent have an autoclaver. She bleaches her tubes. And works from her closed balchony.

    Well Ill just leave it as it is. Be the bigger person, and only rant in this place ;)

  • #26068
     Lennart82 
    Participant

    @ewok_poacher wrote:

    I touch any tattoo I do FOR FREE, FOREVER, FOR ANY REASON. I saw your rose tattoo, if she paid for the whole tattoo then finish it. If she paid for the time she sat in the chair then charge her to finish it. When its done, touch it up if it needs it. Don’t do hands because your not good enough yet, I would also add necks and forearms to that don’t do list (if you do you will regret it in a few years , I promise).

    And as an answer to this.
    She was/is a discount shopper. She asked how much I could do for the price of 3 hours. And nothing more. She then showed me 6 tattoos she wanted within those 3 hours. Basically a full sleave, a neck tattoo, a hand tattoo, half a sleeve on her leg, and some script here and there, and that flower. We went with the script and the flower, as I told her, it would be impossible to do all of that within just three hours.
    And when the clock turned to the final part of the third hour she stopped me, she didnt want to pay for any more.
    Now Im all in for the free touch up, and would be more then happy to do that, but to be haggled or swindled, thats a different story. Its been a while since I posted the flower subject, so its more or less out of my system, and I’ve become more firm.

    And on another matter, just to get this clear. Ewok, your new here, so you know not of my story. You have already given some sound advice, your firm and direct, and thats a thing I can respect and a thing I like. Just thread lightly, and dont step on too many toes ;) (Look for the “Mad Reaper” episode if you want more info ;) )
    And my story, please dont “recommend” me to get an apprenticeship, even though I would love that. I’m not from the US, and in my country, theres a whole different tattoo scene. And the tattoo world is not run by artist. Or people who know the trade. Its about the money and nothing more.
    This is the main reason I am on this forum, since I truly believe that you guys here know a hell of a lot more then what I could learn in my country, or from any forum in my own language. Ive been on several forums, but this is by far the best. And the reason this is the best, is heres help to get. And members dosent answer every single questions with; Ask your mentor! or; Get an apprenticeship!
    This is not an option for me in my country. By LAW everyone has the right to call himself a tattooer, if he or she has equiptment. The only law there is, No tattoos in the face or on hands, and no tattooing people under 18, thats it.
    So instead of just becoming the next kitchen aid tattooer, Ive come here for guidence. And hope for the future in 10 years I hope to call myself a tattooer. In 20 years I hope to call myself a tattoo artist.

    Now you know where Im coming from, and hope for understanding, and guidence. ;)

  • #26070
     robroy289 
    Participant

    @lennart82 wrote:

    I know were your getting at guys, and to somepoint I would just have left it were it was.
    if it wasent for my brother though, he was the one who first made me aware of the bad talking. And those occasions, he was the first to back talk them. Saying stuff like; he would never let her touch him with a poker. Thats what makes me a bit sad, I know its a free world and stuff. And maybe I should just leave it as it is.
    He got his last name tattooed on his forearm, and its crisp and nice looking. But it hasent healed yet, so im waiting to see the end result.
    I have looked into her things, even though she has a closed group on facebook. She uses metal grips but dosent have an autoclaver. She bleaches her tubes. And works from her closed balchony.

    Well Ill just leave it as it is. Be the bigger person, and only rant in this place ;)

    I am by no means a hatter! But, with that being said we do have a responsibility as tattoo artist to make sure our craft is kept safe, and if you knowingly know she is re-using tubes and grips without an autoclave you need to report her to the local health department. I hate it when some idiot don’t care no more for human life to take short cuts around tattooing just to make a buck!!! People like that are the ones that have gave at home tattoo artist a bad name!! That and piss poor art work! I would either have a talk with her to let her know what she is doing is wrong or report her.. Sorry if that pisses anyone off but thats the way i feel!

  • #26069
     Ramenuzumaki 
    Participant

    @robroy289 wrote:

    @lennart82 wrote:

    I know were your getting at guys, and to somepoint I would just have left it were it was.
    if it wasent for my brother though, he was the one who first made me aware of the bad talking. And those occasions, he was the first to back talk them. Saying stuff like; he would never let her touch him with a poker. Thats what makes me a bit sad, I know its a free world and stuff. And maybe I should just leave it as it is.
    He got his last name tattooed on his forearm, and its crisp and nice looking. But it hasent healed yet, so im waiting to see the end result.
    I have looked into her things, even though she has a closed group on facebook. She uses metal grips but dosent have an autoclaver. She bleaches her tubes. And works from her closed balchony.

    Well Ill just leave it as it is. Be the bigger person, and only rant in this place ;)

    I am by no means a hatter! But, with that being said we do have a responsibility as tattoo artist to make sure our craft is kept safe, and if you knowingly know she is re-using tubes and grips without an autoclave you need to report her to the local health department. I hate it when some idiot don’t care no more for human life to take short cuts around tattooing just to make a buck!!! People like that are the ones that have gave at home tattoo artist a bad name!! That and piss poor art work! I would either have a talk with her to let her know what she is doing is wrong or report her.. Sorry if that pisses anyone off but thats the way i feel!

    +1

  • #26071
     Infamous 
    Participant

    From what I understand the tattoo industry is completely self-regulated in Denmark. Which means that there isn’t anyone he can tell to get this person into trouble except for the clients themselves.

    So I think what Lenn needs to do, without stepping on anyone’s toes, is to keep doing what he’s doing and to inform his clients about basic cleanliness, and teach a client that if he walks into a shop and they are using metal grips they need to ask if they have an autoclave. If they don’t they should run as fast as they can out the door!

  • #26072
     Lennart82 
    Participant

    Yes the scene is selfregulated. No one cares the less. I can educate my clients in just plainly walking away, if they see anyone use metal grips and dont have an autoclaver.

    95 percentage of those who tattoo like this, dont have a job, and they collect state benefits. Thats against the law, you cannot have a job and collect these wellfare checks.
    So they basically just sits in their home, ordering the cheapest stuff they can find from china, making small amounts tattooing, and getting wellfare money. And these people would NEVER go out and buy something like an autoclaver, as it would be too expensive for them.

    The scary part is that tattooers like this gets alot of clients. People want cheap tattoos. They dont want to pay money for it, they would even love to get ot free.

    But Ill leave it here, and just keep doing what I do. (hehe its only in here I rant high and low about things like this) ;)

  • #26073
     Jbeaufosho 
    Member

    Man Len I know exactly how you’re feeling about your bro man. I just went through something really similar. When I was first starting my cousin asked me to do some shit on his knuckles. I repeatedly told him that at the time I really didn’t feel comfortable enough to do knuckles. Theyre not easy. He said over and over oh, I don’t care I just want you to do it. I don’t care I don’t care. And I’m like dude you should wait its on your hands it’s highly visible. Forever. Anyway stupidly I finally agreed. They didn’t come out terrible but certainly not good. Totally fixable they just need to be cleaned up. Anyway I’m progressed to a place where I feel totally comfortable with doing stuff like that now. So I called him up to set it up (for free of course) come to find out that motherfucker went to Eric fucking merril to fix my shit. I was fucking livid man. If it had just been some customer than fuck it I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it. But that’s my fuckin flesh and blood man. And I know merril is well respected in the game and shit and from a technical stand point his work is pretty flawless but I fucking hate his artwork. My cousin already has a full sleeve of his goofy ass bullshit. It’s just stupid new school bullshit. It’s not fucking tattoo at all. I’m sure someone will have something to say about me hating on him. I’m sorry I just don’t want a goofy ass cartoon half cat/half woman on me. (This is the rant section, right?! Lol) anyway Len long story short I feel your pain man. I had to just bite the bullet. I told him I was dissappointed and left it alone. But yeah man that shit can be frustrating. I don’t think you’ll ever find another medium that you have to worry about someone else coming along and finishing your shit.

  • #26074
     robroy289 
    Participant

    Lol!! Freedom of speech!! No hating here!! I always get those clients that want these tattoos fixed they got from blow joe down the road, and then they get mad when i tel them how much i am gonna charge to fix the mess they have.Everyone has mess ups when they start. But to many people don’t know the difference between a bad tattoo and a good tattoo..

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