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Disclaimer: I’m not an apprentice or looking to be one. As such, I submit my question to an internet forum for review. :) I used to build/tune/race my own motorcycles so mechanics are not an issue and I’m looking at these form a mechanics perspective, not an artist’s in this post.
I put this here because I know everyone thinks these are “toys”. I was given a piratefacetattoo.com kit for my birthday and have just played on practice skins. I’ve read the fundamentals book multiple times and have pulled apart all of the machines to see how they tick and if I can make them better.
All of the machines seem to run pretty smooth out of the box. Needle tube vices were all in line and tubes was installed no issues, armature bars were in line over coils, all of the fasteners were loose when I got it but that was not tough to correct.
What I did notice is that the springs they use are more like tinfoil than steel and the longer the machine ran the longer the throw seemed to get. I replaced the springs on two, one with a shorter spring for liner an one with a standard spring for shading. The machines already seem to be better.
Next upgrade, because I can’t for the life of me find something wrong with the frames (one piece bent aluminum…no welds to break), is the coils. The machines run great but they do heat up after 30-40 minutes of work.
Armature bars are aluminum and seem fine. I may just be too new to notice they suck. :)…any reason to replace these? I did put one in a press and reduce some weight from it to speed up one machine at lower voltage…worked great.
The foot switch was crap and I had to dissect it and re-solder all the connections but now it’s fine. The power supply has a great readout to the tenth and power is smooth. I won’t replace these until they die.
Beyond coils heating up and springs too thin I’m having trouble really finding any issues with the machines that warrant the bad rap they seem to get. Is it because I’m objective and haven’t dismissed the machines as crap from the get go or am I missing something. There is nothing complicated about these machines…pretty straight forward .
Mark
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I put it down to closed-mindedness/elitism. Other than one set of coils dying immediately before a job, I can honestly say I’ve had no problems with my Chinese machines. I’ve re-built each of the ones I use, and they’ve always done what I need them to do. Okay, the 8 wrap liner did start to get a bit unhappy after running for 6 hours, but after a cool down, it was good as gold again. At the end of the day, if the machine does the job it needs to do (put ink in the skin cleanly and consistently) that’s all that matters. Anything else is just snobbery, like people who flash their Rolexes or sports cars.
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for me it is a matter of practicality…
can a cheap Chinease machine be rebuilt and customized to run ok? sure. the question is do you have the time/energy/money to do that?
if you get a cheapo machine for $70, then buy some decent coils for $30, then a few various springs and capacitors, a-bars, ect- then you’ve spent $100-$150 (don’t forget $hipping) as well as lots of time with trial and error to work up a decent machine.the alternative is to buy a decent machine for $200 from a decent builder/company and it’s already set up the way you want and has the backing of quality- not trial and error. this seems like a better deal to me becasue if i spend $150 in materials and then another 3-4 hours swapping parts, modifying and tuning- that’s $16 an hour i paid an expert to do the same job. i would much rather pay that and then get that extra 3 hours back to focus on my drawing and artwork.
think of it this way- if you are a painter, why would you want to be a brush maker too? you should be focusing on painting, not manufacturing brushes. it’s a better use of your time. IMHO.
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@cjmahone66 wrote:
for me it is a matter of practicality…
can a cheap Chinease machine be rebuilt and customized to run ok? sure. the question is do you have the time/energy/money to do that?
if you get a cheapo machine for $70, then buy some decent coils for $30, then a few various springs and capacitors, a-bars, ect- then you’ve spent $100-$150 (don’t forget $hipping) as well as lots of time with trial and error to work up a decent machine.the alternative is to buy a decent machine for $200 from a decent builder/company and it’s already set up the way you want and has the backing of quality- not trial and error. this seems like a better deal to me becasue if i spend $150 in materials and then another 3-4 hours swapping parts, modifying and tuning- that’s $16 an hour i paid an expert to do the same job. i would much rather pay that and then get that extra 3 hours back to focus on my drawing and artwork.
think of it this way- if you are a painter, why would you want to be a brush maker too? you should be focusing on painting, not manufacturing brushes. it’s a better use of your time. IMHO.
I can see your point and where you are coming from, but in my honest opinion I would prefer to build it myself… Yes, it does take a lot of time and effort, but when one of your machines packs it in mid way through a tattoo not only will you not have any spare parts sitting around like I will, but you also wont have the knowledge of how to put it back together so it runs just as well as it did before. Whereas someone like me, who did build it all up from a cheaper machine, wont spend those 3-4 hours while a client is waiting, or getting it running shit but still running quickly just so i can finish that tattoo. :) I have now re built all 5 of my coil machines and all are running better than before, plus all the parts i replaced are now in a box as spares. :D
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@ben.catterall wrote:
@cjmahone66 wrote:
for me it is a matter of practicality…
can a cheap Chinease machine be rebuilt and customized to run ok? sure. the question is do you have the time/energy/money to do that?
if you get a cheapo machine for $70, then buy some decent coils for $30, then a few various springs and capacitors, a-bars, ect- then you’ve spent $100-$150 (don’t forget $hipping) as well as lots of time with trial and error to work up a decent machine.the alternative is to buy a decent machine for $200 from a decent builder/company and it’s already set up the way you want and has the backing of quality- not trial and error. this seems like a better deal to me becasue if i spend $150 in materials and then another 3-4 hours swapping parts, modifying and tuning- that’s $16 an hour i paid an expert to do the same job. i would much rather pay that and then get that extra 3 hours back to focus on my drawing and artwork.
think of it this way- if you are a painter, why would you want to be a brush maker too? you should be focusing on painting, not manufacturing brushes. it’s a better use of your time. IMHO.
I can see your point and where you are coming from, but in my honest opinion I would prefer to build it myself… Yes, it does take a lot of time and effort, but when one of your machines packs it in mid way through a tattoo not only will you not have any spare parts sitting around like I will, but you also wont have the knowledge of how to put it back together so it runs just as well as it did before. Whereas someone like me, who did build it all up from a cheaper machine, wont spend those 3-4 hours while a client is waiting, or getting it running shit but still running quickly just so i can finish that tattoo. :) I have now re built all 5 of my coil machines and all are running better than before, plus all the parts i replaced are now in a box as spares. :D
That’s me to.. I would much rather have a basic understanding of how to tear down a machine and make it perform better vs spending thousands of dollars for a couple machines… Sure i do plan on upgrading to something by more a reputable manufacture just to see what i might be missing out on, but what happen if that machine goes down on me during a tattoo and i do not know how to replace what is wrong with!! (order another one!) What about the clients tattoo im doing in the process.. I just get more satisfaction out of tearing my machines down and customizing it to my satisfaction….
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Chinese knockoff machines may run but smoothly no and as far as your armature bar being aluminum NO aluminum is non ferrous and will not be attracted by a magnet. I have used chinese machines before and you get what you pay for disposable tubes are the same way tell ebay, amazon, tmart to go %#@& themselves if it is a kit you want try tattoomachineequipment.com and check out the hildebrandt kits try the Hildebrandt machines they cost about 50 bucks and are assembled in canada check out their freeflow tubes too also look at technical tattoo tts machines they have some powdercoated machines for 50 and up as far as kits go though you will pay out of the butt for spaulding and rogers but get good equipment as like i said you get what you pay for worldwide tattoo supply sells customizable kits but stay away from the lower priced machines always pay the extra for machines and the pigments stay as far away from scream ink as you can wouldnt recommend Immortal or Iron Butterfly either I wouldnt recommend Intenze ink unless ordered from Intenze themselves as there are so many fakes on the market for that brand mostly Scream with an Intenze label my choice would be radiant, eternal,moms,waverly, or dynamic check out technicals Philadelphia Eddies pigments as well some really nice oranges in there everyone cant start out with the money to drop 300 350 on a time machine or 280 340 on a micky sharpz 400+ on aaron cain technical has a machine I am coveting at the moment for 245 a brass sailor jerry bulldog :mrgreen:
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@robroy289 wrote:
HILDIBRANT!! 44 Mag!!! LOVE IT!! WILL NEVER PART WITH IT!! $50 ALL DAY LONG..
My feelings exactly and they take the warranty seriously. customer service is wonderful. Find them at
http://www.tattoomachineequipment.com/hildbrandt-tattoo-machines
also if you are looking at disposable tubes try the freeflow tubes from that site
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