Hour price?

[Lennart82]

Here it comes again…Pricing…. The price for a tattoo.
What’s your price?
I know, I know, there are a lot of things to consider when talking prices.
Seize, details and such.
What do you take in mind, when determining a price/hourly price?

What is a rule of thumb, when considering what to charge?
And when do you feel like you should raise that?

(And I know, in Denmark they overprice tattoos.)

[Ramenuzumaki]

what I did was I took the total price of the supplies I use. so lets say I pay 20$ for 50 needles. I divided the 20 by 50 to get the price per unit. I then mulitplied the price per unit by 2. I Did this with EVERYTHING. I used 2 because I rarely only use one ink cap, one needle, etc. For inks I budget 2$, for paper towel you budget an entire roll for each tattoo. Even if you’re like me and can do a 4 hour tattoo with 6 half sheets of paper towel. Once you get this which roughly adds up to about 20$ish for me, theny ou double it. When in business you want to almost double EVERYTHING so you can make a profit. Buy your ink caps for .75c per cap, sell em for 1.50, etc.

You can even do like I used to do. I charges a set up fee, then an hourly rate. So my set up fee would cover all the supplies I used multiplied by two, then my hourly rate could be whatever I wanted. I used to charge 30$ set up+20/hr
but since I’ve been quite good, and a nicer studio and such I went up to straight 40/hr
I think your prices are very fair bro, granted I dont know what you’re paying for supplies

[Infamous]

I usually give my clients an option. The first one is about an hour longer than I think it will take, the second I tell them is we could also do 40$ per hour. I don’t charge a setup fee though.

That way they get the option of doing what they think is cheaper, and feel better about it when all is said and done. If one is cheaper than the other, I always charge them that one. Because thats what I said I would take and they walk out feeling like they got a great deal

[Spider]

I have gone to flat rate prices on larger pieces, $300 per session, sessions start at 3 hours until they yell stop or we are done. Tap-Outs. Customers feel they are getting a great deal, in reality not many people can go past the 4-5 hour mark. And the few that do is worth the lower income in terms of how long it took for the increase in word of mouth advertising they are gonna tell all thier friends about! Smaller pieces are just a kind of eyeball thing,

[SparkEater72]

I’m not out to offend Lenn, or Infamous… y’all seem like really good guys.

BUT, based on some of the work I’ve seen I think you should be grateful people are letting you tattoo them. Charge the supplies and let them know a tip is appreciated.

I know things are different in Denmark and maybe Lenn is performing as well as a good tattooer over there… in that case figure out what your time is worth TO YOU ($10 an hour, $20 an hour) and have a rough idea of how much you can tattoo in that time. If you have a design you think you can do in two hours then charge what you expect for 1 hour of work PLUS the cost of your gear (all the stuff Spider listed and yeah, markup, like Spider). The trick here is not ‘shooting yourself in the foot’ when you quote for two hours and end up taking three, or four, or five.

Heh, there are ‘those’ days.

[Lennart82]

None taken.

You should see some of the stuff 85% of tattooers produce in Denmark. Its a disgrace for the field.
Thats why I am still in the learning process. And will be for a loong time yet.

And thats why people actually pay me. Some even say I should charge even more. Want to make big bucks, come to Denmark. Start a shop. Just Watch out for those pesky bikers.

So even though you think my stuff is of poor quality, I can agree, Im nowhere near where I want to be. But then think about the equation in what I have accomplished. I have only tattooed in roughly a year. And this is roughly perhaps 3 or 4 times a month.
Before that. I did portrait drawings.
Yub, discovered in 2011, that I could actually Draw. Never knew this. After two month of just drawing. I actually got my first commission. And then it just went fast from that point.
2013, a tattooer wanted me to come to a shop for a chat. She placed a machine in my hand and asked me to tattoo a practise skin. Next time, told me to tattoo myself (At her shop ofcourse and under her supervision)
Now, if you read a bit about my back story, you would learn Denmark is WAY different then the rest of the World. Tattooers here are still stuck in the protective sixties. And you would know I cant do a god damn thing about it.

So back to the equation. 1 year of tattooing. I get paid, sure. But if I didnt I would undermine te Danish market, and get a littel visit from your friendly neighbourhood biker gang, when they can see they are loosing business. Danish people want cheap tattoos. Cant argue with their bad standards.

But point is. Yub, I may not be very good. I may even be of such poor skills that everybody should shout STOP TATTOOING. But you know, I will not stop.
I want this, and if this Means I have to hear/read this kind of stuff over and over Again. It just lights my fire even more.

So, now that you know this. What would be your best proffesional advice to me? Now you know, I woundt listen to the STOP TATTOOING, thing ;)

[SparkEater72]

Lenn, I’ve read many posts by you on here… and I’ve seen your art as well as your tattoos.

Your artwork, for the most part is above par and better than some of the other cats you pal around with.

I’m really not shouting ‘stop tattooing’… I’m shouting STOP GIVING ADVICE. You know you have a lot to learn and you know just enough to get you into trouble. Let other folks read the books and make their own fuck ups. Do all the tattoos you want… just know that in a small area (small town, rural, whatever) especially in a small area, you’re going to see these first efforts of yours again and again. I do suggest working smaller tattoos and making customers aware that some tattoos, at least for now, are over your head. But then… you don’t seem to know when a tattoo is over your head. This is when guidance comes in handy. I’m not talking apprenticeship… but some kind of someone or something who can sit around at least once to say “sure you can push these lines???” “Sure you’re up for this shading??” “Can you pack this much color?”

It sucks to hear that tattooing in Denmark is still stuck in the 70’s apparently (at least 70’s as far as the US is concerned). It also sucks that if I suggest you relocate would probably have you changing your resident status to another country. That you have a family only complicates matters further.

I honestly wish I could help you and a few other cats on this forum (but by no means everyone) but I can not. I will stick to my guns on the “You can’t learn from books/forums/DVD’s/YouTube” opinion. You can learn by doing hundreds or thousands of shitty tattoos while you figure out the reality vs the bullshit in books/forums/dvd’s/YouTube… But I can’t help you unless I’m right there to hear your machine and watch you set it up… or watch you run lines, or shade, or pack color. I’d have to be able to see your posture and how you stretch skin… as well as too many other things to list.

If you’re compelled to tattoo… then it’s something you must do. I know the feeling, I was there once too… just don’t expect me to be all sweet n puffy when I talk about it or critique work. I don’t set out to be a prick… I just am.

My hope for you is that your confidence and skills improve exponentially as you continue. Maybe someday you can own Denmark… tattooers make some bad-ass connections. :mrgreen: It does make things easier when dealing with bikers, or gang bangers or KKK members or skinheads… or law enforcement. 8-) Get to know the guys in charge and sometimes (not always) good things happen.

[Lennart82]

Most of the time, I have given what I think works for me. I might have mentioned that a few times, and sometimes I havent.

Appreciate the honesty. ;) And now Im certain your not this Mad reaper guy :P

But could you do me a fawor?
Check out the picture I posted today, and give me some advice, what I did right, but more importantly, what I did wrong. I dont know why, but everytime I have posted a picture here lately, I get zero respons. I mean, is it so bad that its not even worth sayng I suck?

I want to learn, no secret there, but all I have is, books, dvds and forums like this. And yes, a sound apprenticement would be the ultimate thing. Problem is, that amostly every established tattooer here, are selfmade, and they have apprentices. They have experience yes, but questionable skills, and if they learned everything from a mentor who was selfmade aswell, were do that leave me?
I have been to shops that I thought good, but most of the time they dont take in anybody, unless its someone they know. And they will not teach anything to a competitor.
Thats the biggest problem. All shops hate each other, since its competition.

As you mentioned, Cant move country, got a family. So I have to suck every little thing in I can find. Yes I have had some flawed information and bad advice, And I have learned from them. I like to think, if your gonna learn the way I have to learn, there will be fails and there will be successes. But again, this is just me, and I only tell what works for me, and if people point out Im doing a thing wrong, and theres a better way, I do that.

To sum it up, no hard feelings or anything.
You really should see most the self made tattooers here. You would be shooked. ;)

[SparkEater72]

You should see them here. :lol:

I love my country, but if I were to show up in Denmark, I’d be bringing my AR15, my .45 and my Remington 870. I’ve dealt with bikers before… and gang bangers… and neo-Nazis and KKK types… it kinda goes with the whole tattoo thing and sadly… it always will to one degree or another. I’m a peaceful guy until people want to start shit with me… then I’m always willing to do my best to finish it. BUT, as I’ve moved from area to area (been all over the U.S.) I find it’s not hard to make connections, figure out who the players are and either work with them, or around them.

Of course, all of this was much easier before I got married and inherited a son. Nowadays it’s all about making sure the people I care about don’t end up in the line of fire and the bills get paid. Which is why I work for the railroad.

I still tattoo a few clients who have large pieces in progress, but they are also family or very close friends of mine. I don’t do business with the general public these days, but when I get settled and IF I have the cash in the bank (say $150,000 USD) to build the studio I’d be proud to operate, then I’ll go back to work as a tattoo artist. I miss the hell out of it for the most part, but I’m trying to acquire almost 100 acres of land. So the sure thing is the way I’ve gone.

[SparkEater72]

that was kind of off-topic and I was involved in a conversation about this topic this morning when discussing plans for a new studio with an old co-worker.

A large factor in the price of a tattoo is overhead. This is the cost of gear (and I’m sure Spider can attest) PLUS what it costs to run the studio: Rent, Insurance, Lights, Heat, Water (in some cases), bio-Hazard waste removal, bio-tests for autoclave and equipment, Board of Health fees, occupancy permits, practitioner permits, shop consumables… the list is long and expensive.

A lot of these recent tattooers and underground tattooers see a studio in the city charging $150 an hour (or flat rate) for a tattoo don’t understand that all of that is factored into the price point (the point at which a tattoo pays for itself with some profit so we can eat and pay other bills).

I have a friend (well, we were friends a long time ago) who owns a studio in Boston, Ma. His store front alone is $5,800 a month (USD). That is just his rent to keep the doors open. Then there’s all that other fun stuff. He gets about $150 an hour. After expenses (with 4 artists working under him ponying up a 40% ‘lease’) he brings home about the same as any guy making $15 an hour who works unloading trucks.

Rock-Star, right?

Now you have these new guys, who open a shop outside a city or in a rural area… I’ve worked in these areas as well… where rent MIGHT cost up to $800 to $1000 USD. They charge up to $150 an hour because it makes them ‘seem’ professional. “Hey the pros get this kind of money… why shouldn’t I?” This is gouging and it’s disgusting.

My point is… be fair to your clients and to your self. Charging more money because someone else does, doesn’t make it right. (I’m not saying you are, but you’re not the only one reading this). Consider your overhead… that is the bills you pay to do your tattoos AND the cost of your supplies and a fair percentage on top for profit.

In the case of my friend, who’s opening a shop in a borderline rural area, he also has to take into account the median income of his client base. The paper-mill near the down pays very little and most of the jobs that support the town (convenience stores, body shops, mechanics, gas stations, Wal Mart) don’t pay much either. If he wants the business of these folks he’s going to have to make tattoos affordable. From my own experience… one studio I worked at had a very greedy owner. This person set the minimum for the shop at $60 (USD), the size of the tattoo didn’t matter (half inch lady-bug… $60). I was not given any wiggle room to work with potential clients so I watched many of them walk out the door. After a year of beating my head of the wall dealing with those people I had to quit. Shortly after that the shop closed.

Pricing is all about business and supporting your business AND paying your own bills. It’s not about getting rich. While ‘rich’ could come in time (when you’re booked out for the next 18 months working all day every day) that’s not how price point is determined.

[Author]

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