Shaggy

[Shaggy]

Agreed!

I actually prefer “Best Ink” to “Ink Master”… still got the b.s. drama for TV, but not as much. And Joe C. gives great advice compared to just saying whats wrong with a piece like Peck and Nunez do.

[Shaggy]

Nikko Hurtado… Bob Tyrell… Roman Abrego… Mike Devries!

SparkEater… I have been too busy to check here in awhile, but have to tell you I LOVE the stuff you have been posting. Gotta admire the honesty and passion for the craft in your posts (I also loved when MadReaper was around). Obviously it is all falling on deaf ears unless they are lurking once in a while (which I know they do since I saw it mentioned at their new hangout). I have lurked a few times over at their new clubhouse, and it just hilarious to read… it’s like an episode of the Big Bang Theory with Sheldon, Leonard, Raj and Howard except they are tattoo geeks (they even have geek themed levels at the clubhouse – Jedi, etc.). It’s good for a chuckle.

I basically quit bothering with this place after I got curious and went to Ram’s facebook page to see his work and almost fell out of my chair. Self-proclaimed asian specialist, B&G specialist? The “original” asian mask is just horribly drawn to begin with, let alone inked like he was blindfolded. The black & grey pieces have no transition between shades, let alone smooth, it’s just linework and 1 shade. The fact that people let him put needle to skin blows my mind!!! I can’t comment on the art of the others since I gave up wondering after realizing King Ram (or Sheldon) was the one actually supplying the before tattoos to Tattoo Nightmares.

Keep it real!
– Shaggy

[Shaggy]

No worries… glad to help!

Just a suggestion… you should be sticking with M1 mags anyway, M2’s serve their purpose as do curved, but just starting out you should be more focused on sinking ink and getting it to stay in the skin nice, smooth and saturated. Don’t assume an M2 is going to saturate just better because the needles are tighter, it is just the opposite… an M1 will saturate better because the needles are further apart and therefore delivering more ink. Turn down your voltage, slow your hand, and move in an overlapping circular motion and you will have nice color saturation using an M1 without turning the skin to hamburger. Worry about M2’s and curved mags and the effects they can produce after you have mastered saturation with an M1.

[Shaggy]

Are you using an 11 tip with your 11 m2? I’m guessing you are… M2’s are grouped tighter and therefore you have to drop down in tip size to eliminate the side to side wiggle. If you compare a standard 11 mag with an M2 you will see the M2 is much narrower. That is why you didn’t see it with your flat needle, cause it actually fit the tube properly. Depending on the make of your needle you should be using a 9 tube, and possibly even a 7. There should be no room in your tip to allow the needle to move anyway except up and down the tube.

[Shaggy]

I have been using NeoTats for about 4 months now, after 5 years of coils, and I can say I love them. No muss, no fuss, no tweaking and no tuning… just the occasional oiling. I also agree with comments I have seen around the net that rotaries seem to produce less trauma to the skin.

@Ladysinaz wrote:

I have also noticed that when i take my foot off the pedal that the needle may or may not be still sticking out of the tube. I mentioned this to my BF and he said that the motor stops where it stops when the power is cut off..This may just be the way it is *shrug

Your BF is correct… when you release the pedal wherever the needle is in the tube is where it stops. Always assume it stops at the point of sticking out of the tube and you will not end up sticking something or someone accidentally… yes I am speaking from experience on that one, only happened to me once so now I always consider it sticking out of the tube.

@Ladysinaz wrote:

I have a few issues with them.. The first was that i had to sand out the tube vice because the tubes couldn’t actually fit in the hole. Thats ok now. The stroke is soooo long.. i’ve tried setting the tube/needle flush, less than flush but when i step on the pedal it comes flying out like half a centimeter. ( this could help explain some of my mangled melons ;)

I actually had to do the same thing with a cheap rotary I got at a convention, but not with the NeoTats… the higher priced machines are definitely cut-out better. You definitely get what you pay for, just not sure a $400 price tag is really worth a high-end rotary… I actually kind of like the cheap one now that I carved out the vise hole. As far as setting your needle throw out what applies to coils, the rule of thumb that I follow (as do others in our shop)… LINER: set up your needle and tube, tighten vise a little and run your machine looking at the needle tip, then adjust the tube up or down till you have the width of a U.S. quarter coming out when it is RUNNING (do not just push the A-bar down). SHADER: do all the same as liner, but set the needle tip coming out at little more than width of a U.S. dime. NOTE: these settings are for riding the TIP, not riding the TUBE… if you ride the TUBE adjust to just over half that.

@Ladysinaz wrote:

The other thing is i can’t seem to figure out what V to run them at. From all that i’ve come across so far, the liner should be lower than the shader. If i go any lower than 8 the thing just won’t go.. it ticks but doesn’t seem to have the power to complete the revolution.
IF i feather the pedal like you would if your car was starting to stall on you, i can get it going eventually on the lower setting..

Not sure where you saw that a liner should be lower than a shader, but that is incorrect. What brand of power supply are you using? (I use a Hurricane, they are like $40-$50) I run my liner at 8.2 – 9v, and my shader between 6 – 6.5v. All my rotaries including the cheap one start cranking at 2-3v (not that you would ink that low, but its where motor kicks in). My suggestion would be to look at the maintenance instructions that came with your machine and add a little oil/lube to where it is directed and/or change your power supply. Nice thing about the Hurricane it has one touch change between all settings, i.e. switching from liner to shader, it also has a timer if you wanna keep track of your tattoo time.

@Ladysinaz wrote:

For lining i found the machine to be too light to use the disposable tubes, i put a metal assembly with my squish grip and it then turned into awesome.

Yes disposable tubes make the machine super light-weight for sure, but once you get comfortable and consistent with controlling needle depth it just feels natural. I use mostly metal tubes since that is what the shop has, (my go to needles are 7RL, 9RS, 15mag) but I have become a big fan of 11 round mags for some of the stuff I do and the shop doesn’t have tips to fit, so I use disposables with those and I’m not really even conscious of the difference because I’ve gotten use to it.

It’s all about PRACTICE and MUSCLE-MEMORY!

[Shaggy]

I agree with Jbeau. Since you said you switched to a 7RS and it went in, here are my 2 thoughts on possibilities:

1) Your machine isn’t properly set up as a shader/color packer.
2) Your angle is wrong… with liners and round shaders, your approach to the skin should be close to 90 degrees. With a mag however, your approach to the skin should be more at 45 degrees (think of a circular shoveling motion).

It’s probably a combination of both since the 7RS worked for you.

[Shaggy]

South Florida here… tshirt and shorts today, how about up there? :D

[Shaggy]

Our shop rate is $150/hr… (“friend” rate is $100/hr). Shop minimum is $60 for like simple script, etc.

[Shaggy]

@Jbeaufosho wrote:

What do you mean by a side stroke when lining?

With the reservoir facing forward going left or right. It follows the natural pendulum motion of the needle bar from the nipple, putting no undo stress on needle bar.

Granted you don’t want to move in multiple directions without stopping and letting needle reset at center.

[Shaggy]

@Ladysinaz wrote:

Thanks for the input shaggy

The second melon is done with my new power supply and the rotaries. I think that i had the voltage up too high when i was doing the lining, which is probably why i felt like i had to move my hand faster not to chew things up.
I actually got some of the thin thin skin, i was trying to figure out how to use it lol i need to put it on something and try not to bash the needles.. i suppose i can hold it on a melon :)

I tried a mag too just to see, as i know it can chew fast.. holy heck.

Oh here is a question that is probably answered somewhere else..
draw lines by pushing the machine so that the needles press against the bottom of the tube, or pull back?

A few months ago I made the jump to rotary as well, and I can honestly say I love them. I tried a few different ones that guys in the shop had before settling on what I got… each one had its own little quirks, but they were all pretty consistent on the voltage range. LINING: between 8 & 9 (i use 8.5) SHADING: 5.5 to 7 (I use 6.2).

Yeah Mags on real skin and on melons are totally 2 different things… on skin it turns the area basically into a brush-burn, but on melons it tears the fibers in the rind making a matted mess. Mags on skin is the one thing that doesn’t translate well to melons, so just ignore how it makes the melon look and practice using like a 15 mag to shade and fill and getting enough control with it that you can go right to your outline and dip into corners using just the edge needles of the mag.

As far as your last question… Ever heard the term “PUSHING ink”. It is always best to push to keep the needle seated, especially in a diamond tip… if you are using a round tip, its not ideal but it is also not really going to pull the needle anywhere if you have to pull part of a line because its in there so tight. What you should practice is more of a side stroke, this will allow you to sweep curves easier and give you 3 options of needle movement “pushing and left or right”. With shaders and mags you are doing tight circles so it doesn’t apply there.

[Shaggy]

I practiced on melons LONG before I went to real skin, mainly because I had no desire back then to do skin but just wanted to see how my airbrush skills might translate over. From your melon photos, one thing is obvious… you are going to deep with the needle 70% of the time. You need to practice needle control & depth control… take your time, don’t rush the line. Speed comes with practice and muscle memory. When the line you run in a melon looks carved, it’s too deep.

You started doing it in your early photo… run parallel lines about an inch long all the way around the melon, then do another row and another until the whole thing is covered with inch long parallel lines. Every single line should have the same crispness, be the same width and have same saturation. If any are lighter, thinner and you can see the lines each needle made… then you’re too shallow. If any are darker, thicker and have a halo bleeding out from line… you’re too deep. Again take your time, don’t rush to get it done… the goal is consistency. You want to find that perfect position for the machine in your hand that lets you run a nice line every time.

Once you are confident running a straight line consistently, then move on to curves (flowers, etc.) and get comfortable running nice lines thru curves. After that move on to shading… however slow your machine down and less needle depth than with the liner, the photo of the feather is all chewed up due to speed and depth on the melon.

TIP on needle depth practice: Even though I absolutely HATE practice skin… get the really thin practice skin (its flimsy when you hold it), and practice on that doing whatever you want. Then flip it over… if you see ink on the back – you went too deep. Once you can tattoo on that without it showing on the back… lay it on your leg and tattoo the fake skin against your leg – cause if you go too deep, you will know it.

[Shaggy]

I’ve been getting quite a few rib tattoos coming in the shop lately, and a few weeks ago I think I stumbled on to a trick. Another tattooer was using the massage table so I had to have my customer sit sideways on a bar height chair… Yes very awkward and uncomfortable for them, but awesome for me height-wise and angle-wise. Placing a cushion between them and the back of the chair allowed for them to bend away from me for a nice stretch with their arm over their heads. I actually think this uncomfortable/awkward position took their mind off the needle enough for me to get busy without fear of jumpiness from them.

I’ve used this technique on quite a few rib tattoos now, including a girl who got her very first tat on her ribs… it seems to work like a charm. Granted this won’t work for a big time consuming piece, but for something about an hour or so… give it a try.

(Lower back tattoo = Tramp Stamp………. Rib tattoo = Skank Flank)

[Shaggy]

The whole saran wrap thing grew out of tattoo conventions. Artists would wrap the new tattoo in saran wrap because it offered barrier protection on the convention floor while letting the tattoo be visible to everyone on the convention floor. Just another example of a good idea gone wrong and brought into everyday practice. I think it probably continued to some degree outside of the convention arena because people love showing off their new ink as soon as they leave the shop and while it is not the most sanitary practice, having a see-thru saran wrap barrier is better than them walking into the bar across the street and taking off the drylock to show it everyone 20 times.

I got a tattoo 30 years ago and it still looks good… yeah ok it could use a bit of a color touch-up… but it looks better than 90% of tattoos I’ve seen that are 15 years old. The guy who did it (Ace) put a gauze patch on it and told me to remove it in about an hour and lightly hand-wash it with mild soap, then let it breath for half an hour before putting another gauze patch over it before I went to sleep so tossing and turning didn’t harm it (it was 1am when I left his shop, so yeah I was headed to bed). It healed perfect, no-scabbing, no-nothing. I have used that aftercare with every tattoo since, and the irony in this is my mentor also gives customers the exact same after-care instructions as I got 30 years ago… but yes at conventions he does use saran wrap for the reason I mentioned above.

Moral of the story… drylock is the best bet hands down, but if you know they are going to be showing it off for hours in a germ filled environment then at least saran wrap offers a barrier while still allowing them to show it off. But they need to be instructed as to why the saran wrap, and that as soon as they are home they need to gently wash it, air or pat dry and let it breathe… after 24 hours they shouldn’t be covering it anyway.

[Shaggy]

Actually Ram… according the Berne Convention which the US belongs to (not sure about Canada). Copyright is AUTOMATIC for original works (sorry Reaper but that does include photos). However in the US, to be compensated for damages and reimbursed for lawyer fees it MUST BE a registered copyright… which means you can still go to court and prevent someone from using the work or forcing them to withdraw it, you’re just not going to get any money for it unless it is registered. The automatic copyright is effective and enforceable between all countries who participate in the Berne Convention, with jurisdiction lying in the country of origin.

How do I know this… I did Insurance for a few years and this is part of Personal Liability Insurance, which was a big market for me.

[Shaggy]

Wow… been awhile since I’ve been on here, but I have to say reading all the back-and-forth between Infamous and Mad Reaper across multiple threads has made me laugh – imagining them sitting at the keyboard, blood boiling as they respond to each other.

Let me preface my post with this… While I am fairly new to this forum, I did graduate from Art School back in the early 80’s before computers when you actually had to have talent to get in. I have used that artistic talent for 30 years to make a living, including airbrushing friends vans, motorcycles & t-shirts while I was in the Marine Corps to make a few extra bucks. I became fascinated with tattooing during my Marine days also, I drew and sold flash to the shops outside the base and hung around when I could learning bits and pieces. Needless to say tattooing back in the 80s is not what it is today, and back then the whole flash “pick it & stick it” didn’t appeal to my artistic side. Then life, bills, ex-wives etc. happened, but I never lost that passion and curiosity for tattooing and continued to read everything I could. A few years ago I broke out my old machines and tuned them and started playing on fruit and fake skin again… so when I decided a few months ago to walk into a shop about an apprenticeship it came as no surprise that I was accepted.

Infamous… I hate to be the bearer of bad news but everything I am reading from Mad Reaper is on the money. I use to feel the same way as you about Dollar Stores, but they are the best thing ever for a tattoo artist for replenishing disposable items such as: liquid antibacterial soap (dilute it to replace green soap), spray bottles, sandwich bags (they make great barrier covers and fit over a Hurricane perfectly), hand sanitizer, rubbing alcohol, saran wrap, I even found an off-brand jar of A&D. After a quick stop at a craft store for a bag of tongue depressors I stocked my whole station for like $10.
Also… Mad Reaper is correct about Amazon and Monster Steel/Piercing Pros, the shop I am in orders most things from Amazon and it comes from Monster Steel. Yes most times the Amazon prices are cheaper than Monsters own website (Amazon of course does not carry everything). The explanation he gave is also correct, the company I currently work for (my day job) does the same thing selling same stuff on Amazon under another name cheaper… Amazon consumers are a whole other type of bird, so as long as the margin is there to do it, you lower pricing and gain them as a new customer and include your catalog in their Amazon shipment to hook them into other items from your own site.

AND… Mad Reapers comments on cheap rotaries being just/almost as good as high-end, again on the money. The shop I am in uses rotaries exclusively, the owner uses NeoTat. I could have used my coils but am always up for learning/experimenting so he gave me these inexpensive rotaries to try (cause I’m not shelling out $350 for a NeoTat unless I’m sure)… and I have to say, 37 tattoos later I actually love them – no fuss, no tuning, just hook up and go. I will probably get the NeoTat eventually though, it is VERY quiet where the inexpensive ones he gave me are louder… and I feel if it ain’t buzzin like a coil, then it needs to be VERY quiet. LOL

P.S. – as far as machine set-up i.e. coils, springs, capacitors, etc. There are hundreds of pairing variations… it comes down to how you tattoo and what works for your style. Of course no beginner on this site has a clue to what any of that means let alone knows what their style/technique for tattooing is until they actually do SKIN trying various set-ups. Meaning if you are heavy-handed you better not have a hard-hitting set-up and vice versa if you are light-handed a soft-hit probably won’t sink ink. This is something you can learn by reading, watching DVDs, and just plain old trial and error the old school way.

[Author]

Posts